Interview: Jasmine.4.t on her debut album, boygenius, and the beauty of community
Image Credit: Matt Grubb
When it comes to music, blazing a trail is no easy feat. There are infinite barriers that come with trying to find a unique and relatable sound that connects with people and inspires a new generation of creatives, all while garnering praise from the biggest names and publications in the industry. Sounds like a lot of pressure, right?
Well, if you took one look at Manchester singer-songwriter Jasmine.4.t, you’d think it was as easy as saying ‘indie rock icon.’ Her boygenius-produced debut album, ‘You Are The Morning’ released via Phoebe Bridgers’ Saddest Factory Records on January 17th; ‘Imagine having your debut album produced by Phoebe [Bridgers], Lucy [Dacus] and Julien [Baker], like, what the hell?’
The record breaks new ground, opening eyes and hearts to the brutal, yet beautiful reality of the trans experience. In December, I sat down with Jasmine to talk about the album, its themes, and the impact her community has on her art.
Was it always the plan to have boygenius produce the album, or did you shop around for producers for a bit?
It was actually Phoebe’s idea! Lucy had always told me she wanted to produce my album, and then when Phoebe signed me, she said she wanted to produce it, and then they were like, ‘Why don’t we all just produce it?’
From the outside, it looks like it all happened super fast; it was announced you were signed to Saddest Factory, then ‘Skin on Skin’ released, and then the album was announced; was it as fast behind the scenes?
It kind of was! I signed the contract the day after Boygenius played Kingston upon Thames. I opened for them, and it was the first time we’d all been in a room together. Then it was like, ‘We need to get you to LA.’ So, I booked the flight immediately. The label paid to fly my Manchester transsexuals to LA, and some trans musicians in LA helped out too, so we all made the album together. We added some more layers once we got back to Manchester, and then everything started coming out, and here we are! I’m very aware that my life is changing super-fast, so I’m trying to cling onto all the normalcy I have left.
When I saw that Vixen played on the album, my mind was blown; she plays guitar for Rina Sawayama and I’m a huge fan. How do you guys know each other, was that through the label?
I can’t remember if it was Lucy or Phoebe who knew Vixen; she’s a great guitarist, but an incredible bassist as well, so we got her in to play bass. We have a lot of footage of the boys and Vixen writing the bass parts together, and it was so incredible watching them all work together. They’re all incredible, but seeing how they all work individually and looking at the different things they contribute was really fucking cool.
What was the writing process like for the record?
All the songs were written and demoed as solo and acoustic; I’d taught my band the songs, but we hadn’t done many shows before we went to LA, so we arranged them in the studio together. Phoebe was laying the framework for how we recorded things; we recorded in the same studio she’d used for Punisher, so we naturally did things in a similar way. I was expecting it to be tense, or competitive, or for there to be some kind of conflict with so many cooks in the kitchen, but it was so fun. We were just hanging out, eating great food, and making great music!
It’s really crazy that you’ve gone this far. Especially because we’re mutuals and have mutual friends, I just find it super crazy that a Manchester doll has an album produced by Boygenius. I can’t get over it.
It’s fucking mad!
It’s a bridge between two worlds that I never expected.
I met the girls through transfem meetups in Manchester, and it was crazy to be like, ‘Hey, do you want to come to LA and record an album with Boygenius?’
It speaks a lot to the value of community; the chemistry between you and your band, and the way you talk about all the different aspects of community and what it does for you is really cool.
I’d definitely recommend coming to ‘Just Do the Thing’ in Manchester, they’re so cool. Each one is organised by a different doll; it’s very anarchist so you never really know what to expect!
Setting up your own meetups in Leeds would be a good shout too, just because there’s so many dolls in similar positions who want more transfem-centred stuff to happen.
Just to circle back to the album for a second, I’d like to talk a little bit about the title track. I assume the track came before the title was decided?
Yeah, it’s about my friend Han who stayed with me through my transition when most of my friends didn’t. I was sleeping on her floor when I didn’t have anywhere else to stay. It’s really a dedication to her.
But at the same time, it’s about the resilience of trans and queer people in the face of violence, which is a very pertinent thing. The memorial list for Trans Day of Remembrance this year was so fucking long. At the time I’d experienced a few violent hate crimes, and Han really helped me through that; it’s all about how my community got me to a point of being able to fight for myself and those around me, and transfem people’s potential to bring change in themselves, those around them and the world in general.
We’ve seen trans people change the world in so many ways this year, and that’s what ‘You Are the Morning’ means now. It’s a call to others to realise that they hold that power.
Your music does that to people, we’ve talked about it a little bit before. I remember speaking to you when you got signed to Saddest Factory, and it really reignited my faith in music and the idea of making it. I’ve never seen a trans girl, other than Ethel Cain, at the centre stage of indie music like this. I know you’ve not been around for long, but I’m really seeing the change.
Thank you, yeah. It’s been amazing seeing other dolls be like, ‘What the fuck? I didn’t know there were other girls out there, making music like me.’ It feels like that world has needed more representation for a long time, and I feel very lucky to be a part of that.
Of all the tracks on the album, I’m the most excited to hear ‘Guy Fawkes Tesco Dissociation’, I’ve heard it mentioned in a couple of interviews and I can’t wait.
I’m expecting it to resonate with a lot of people. I think it’s a very relatable experience, dissociating in Tesco!
Are there any other tracks on the album you’re excited for people to hear?
‘Highfield’, for sure. Of all the tracks, it’s the one that most directly addresses street harassment, and violence, and all the shit that we go through. It’s a present theme on the album, but in this song it’s really the subject. As such a visible advocate for trans rights now, it’s something that I want to bring up.
I bring it up a lot when we play live. It’s something that I think a lot of cis people just don’t think about, and how it affects us psychologically, and stops us from being ourselves on the street. It feels powerful having that song and having the boys there to support that.
It’s something that I don’t see talked about enough. All the conversation is about bathrooms. Who even cares about that?
Exactly, I can go to the bathroom with another girl and be in and out, and feel safe enough, but walking down the street anywhere is terrifying! There’s this background threat of violence that we always have as trans women, and I don’t think people realise that.
The conversation about bathrooms almost seems like a distraction; we’re being made out to be a threat when we’re the ones who are at risk? But I barely see anyone talking about the actual violence we face! I’d really like to centre that conversation in my music.
In terms of the music, what’s next after the album? Are you gonna take time to sit and write?
Oh, I’m writing all the time! I wrote a whole EP while I was in the studio recording the album, and I’d like some of those songs to be on the next album. I’m gonna be playing lots of live shows too.
Hopefully, I’ll be spending more time doing what I love; spending time with lots of lovely queer people and making music. I feel so lucky.
Written by Lucas Assagba
